Oct 13, 2023 - Jessika Nelson-Woynicz - Learn how Placemaking creates sustainable and resilient communities

Today, we're joined by Jessika Nelson-Woynicz, whose prolific career as an architect and developer has earned her awards and recognition across the southeast. She grew her expertise in Placemaking while working for large, national multifamily and mixed use developers.

We delve into the versatility of how innovative projects are addressing housing needs, emphasizing the importance of unique, community-centric housing options beyond traditional models. Jessika shares her journey from architecture to real estate development, underlining the significance of understanding end-users and employing a variety of experiences and skills to contribute to successful placemaking. Enjoy!

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessika-nelson-woynicz
www.pridebydesign.org
www.notcomplicatedjustgreen.com
www.creativeinterface.design

This podcast is presented by Creative Interface Architecture and Interiors.
Visit our podcast website at NotComplicatedJustGreen.com.
To learn more about the ideas of this podcast, visit www.creativeinterface.design.

Find helpful articles, download your free Project Planning Packet, even schedule your free Ask The Expert consultation. Whether you're an experienced developer, you just have an idea for a project, or you're simply curious what architects do, visit www.creativeinterface.design , Making Greener Design Practically Impactful.

Transcript

Podcast Episode Summary:
In this episode of Not Complicated, Just Green, the focus is on housing solutions and placemaking in communities. The host, along with guest Jessika Nelson Woynicz, delves into the versatility of her  projects in addressing housing needs. They emphasize the importance of unique, community-centric housing options beyond traditional models. Jessika shares her journey from architecture to real estate development, underlining the significance of understanding end-users and employing a variety of experiences and skills to contribute to successful placemaking.

Key Highlights:
Jessica: From Architecture to Development
Architectural Collaboration Challenges
Project Insights: Culture and Community
Personal Journey: Overcoming Challenges
Changing Perceptions: Responsible Development

Hashtags:
#HousingSolutions #Placemaking #CommunityDevelopment #RealEstate #AffordableHousing #CommunityImpact #Architecture #PropertyValues #DevelopmentJourney

JESSIKA NELSON WOYNICZ

[00:00:00] Jessika: If I've learned anything, it's places have cultures and identity just like people do. That comes from the people who live there.

[00:00:10] James: This is Not Complicated, Just Green, and it's time for another installment of Common Sense for Better Construction, bridging the information gap to help you reach a brighter future in the build world.

Welcome back, friends. I'm your host, James, and I'm excited to bring you the sixth episode of our series on development and the way that it shapes our city's impacts our lives and what it's doing to our planet. Last week, we spoke to Booker T. Washington, a visionary developer creating micro living neighborhoods and rewriting the rules for homeownership in Atlanta.

What excites me about Booker's project is how versatile and adaptable of a solution it can offer to any community in need of housing. And it fills critical gaps to provide homeownership options for people who don't want the same old, three bedroom, two bath, cookie cutter subdivision housing.

More than edgy style, and even more than [00:01:00] economic stability, ideas like South Park Cottages promote the health and sustainability of a neighborhood and the promise of a stable community in places like College Park and many others that have suffered from what has seemed like an unfixable problem.

Public concerns that pop up most among communities of all sizes tend to revolve around crime and property values. Many citizens point the finger at these issues as their reasons to stop development of any type of multifamily or smaller houses, suggesting that cheaper, smaller housing brings crime and lowers property values.

However, the data simply doesn't back this up. In fact, statistics that compare crime and property value to other major factors actually point to long term residential leasing and long term home ownership as the solution. They show that the strongest statistical indicator that leads to the problems are markets which are saturated with short term rental options as the only option.

Unfortunately, most communities pay little to no attention to these studies and citizens pressure their cities to simply stop development instead of finding solutions that would lead to affordable long term housing and home ownership. Let's shift the [00:02:00] conversation from what's to blame and who's at fault and let's focus on solutions.

South Park Cottages, along with many other housing developments, offer much more than just rooftops. There's a tangible community impact. among its people, and a unique sense of individuality in the areas that set themselves apart based on the interests of people who live, work, and play there. This concept is most satisfying when it appears to be organic, but in fact it's often the result of hard work and dedication of the development team to understand the people and culture they're developing a project to serve.

I've heard developers and designers suggest that placemaking is a skill, and others say it's an art form. Some say it's so intangible it can't be a commodity because its delivery can't be promised, while others insist it's the most important component to help a development succeed. Today we welcome to the podcast Jessica Nelson Woynich, who co founded the design and development company 1570 to impact community growth with real estate development through the eyes of an architect, formerly at Mill Creek Residential Trust.

She had a hand in every Atlanta and Nashville deal that changed the skylines of these two [00:03:00] rapidly growing markets with projects totaling over 2 million square feet, over 5, 000 units, and over a billion dollars in assets. Recognized by the American Institute of Architects as a leader in Atlanta, across Georgia, and throughout the Southeast, and an alumni of the inaugural class of the AIA Georgia Christopher Kelly Leadership Program, which I'm also thrilled to be a member of, and I'm grateful to say that Jessica wrote one of my letters of recommendation.

I'm proud to call her a friend, and I hope you enjoy our conversation. This podcast is presented by Creative Interface Architecture and interiors. Please visit creative interface.design. 

[00:03:32] Jessika: There's certainly cues that inform how a person works, how they think, and. The strengths that they can bring to any project based on their background, based on their lived experiences, based on the intersectionality of their identity and past experiences.

For me, some of those, obviously I probably can't cover them all in one conversation, but I'm a woman in development or in real estate in general. And. [00:04:00] Previously was a female architect and then on top of that consider myself a designer still, I'm a wife, I'm a daughter, a sister I'm a lot of things to a lot of people, I'm a friend, but I can also, be an athlete or be, Other parts of me that I don't necessarily directly link to products that we're developing or designing, but I think in some ways, if you are a user and you have those identities of what you like to do, who you hang out with, all of those things can really inform the kind of placemaking you're doing.

I think that all of those inform the kind of work that I do. I'm certain that I have had my way of thinking or being short sighted on a couple of things or too head down on, in the weeds on something to see the bigger picture. I'm most certain that I've experienced that, but I think that more importantly, I've taken a few opportunities.

And if I hadn't made the [00:05:00] mistakes and not caught all of the things that I should have caught that first time, then maybe I wouldn't have had lessons learned. Having the lessons learned are really the more valuable 

[00:05:08] James: part when you were going to school for architecture. Did you intend at that point in To transition into development.

Was that always the plan? 

[00:05:17] Jessika: No, certainly not. I thought I was going to be the next Zaha type architect. All in nothing but design, eat, sleep, live, design, architecture, be great at it and build my own firm and my own brand. And little did I know that really I wasn't like the best designer. I didn't know that yet.

I would like to think so, but then I think it was one of those moments where you don't know what you don't know. So I ended up finding more of a, Oh, wow, you're really good at that. Why don't you design this piece of the project on, maybe a team project or a collaboration project. I found myself being more of the project manager, if you will, and being like, okay, [00:06:00] James is in charge of the podcast.

And I think that I'll just work on, making sure that we hit all the points we're supposed to hit or, let's practice. Why don't we talk about the presentation and, oh, you do really great boards. Why don't you make the graphics? I'll make sure you have all the content that you're supposed to have.

That kind of role started to more organically fall in for me because I was seeing other people's strengths and one of those were design, I quickly figured out that a lot of people had a lot of talents. 

[00:06:30] James: So the personality of a manager, the ability to draw the best out of other people can work in all kinds of different fields.

What was it about development that really drew you in and made you commit to this? 

[00:06:42] Jessika: I guess there wasn't really a plan to get into development and so the reason everything happened was based on the succession of a previous decision or previous life event and opportunities that happened to be in front of me when they were, I was working in architecture.

[00:07:00] And had recently gotten laid off and was talking with recruiters and was What year would that have been? 2017? Okay. I believe 2017. And then I was like, man, like I was working so hard to be this Guru, you can do it all architect. I found myself hitting roadblocks in architecture and in more traditional firms where they wanted you to work from, details upward to a project management position from there, then you might, after 25 years, get to lead a studio and your own projects and then add on another 10 years and you might get to bring your own projects in and actually be the visionary.

For creating place, I think, quite frankly, I was pressuring my company to give me more responsibility in a project management role. Give me more autonomy to choose the path of the projects. And that was a lot of risk for them. Admittedly, [00:08:00] like someone less than 10 years in architecture, leading their projects or Them having to get comfortable with someone with such little experience leading something that has their name on it can be daunting.

And no disrespect to them. It's just, I was not, I was missing something for myself. I didn't find that until I found myself at a crossroads between being laid off from work and being like, I've always wanted to do real estate development. I don't really know what that means. I honestly didn't know more than what a capital stack was, much less how to actually go get funds for a project or who to partner with to learn the appropriate placemaking techniques for a development.

I met with a man named Harvey Wadsworth who took a chance on me at Mill Creek Residential. And I ended up learning so much I, it seems like a flash now, coming in as an analyst and working my way up to a development associate at Mill Creek. But I think, he took a chance on me having little [00:09:00] development, basically no development experience.

and relying on my intuition of managerial skills plus my architecture background to then step into this development role. One thing that I brought forward with me from the architecture world and my few years of experience there was the ability to place make and thinking about the end user.

Understanding how environmental factors and environmental decisions can impact usability. For a tenant in a building or creating open space, making sure that there's quality of air, water, vegetation, all of those things that we really need sunlight and bringing those forward into developments, not just looking at an excel sheet and the numbers and making sure that it papers, but bringing the feeling.

[00:09:48] James: And then when you talk about the emotional point of view of the end users, you're really tapping into the reason that building can be successful or not. Do, can you identify some things that you did or that other [00:10:00] people did that really made for great collaboration? Seeing the project from somebody else's perspective.

Is a big part of that. Is that the most important or are there other things that really play a role as well? 

[00:10:10] Jessika: Collaboration, it's understated in every, everything we do with the built environment. Collaboration is a pretty amazing tool that is often underutilized. The company I was working for at the time is both an owner developer and they own their own GC.

Okay. And they own their own operations management. So I had a lot of really amazing people in all of those sectors coming together to work on a project that I was working on in every deal I worked on. So there was a lot of knowledge I was getting early feedback from, let's say the operations management team, listening to how people come into the lobby when they come home to an apartment building.

I was listening to how a person who lives in the apartment building would want to use the retail. on the ground level and [00:11:00] how their, daily lives would be impacted by that. On the flip side of that, I was learning you can cut 300k from a multi million dollar project if you use this material with this window layout over what you're showing in this current from the construction team.

Equally impactful when you're trying to, do your development job. You're trying to. Make sure that you're providing the experience and the value of the end product, but you also have to make the numbers work so that you can get the thing financed. All of those conversations. Required collaboration, but they also required listening.

, if I've learned anything, being in development, it's go ask the pros. Yeah. Go ask the pros, the people who do this every day, what they would do if they were in your shoes. Like role play with people. Hey, if we did this, then what do you think? . If we did that, what are the consequences?

And I've learned more in those types of conversations than I could ever have learned from a textbook. 

[00:11:54] James: I think some of the most valuable experience I ever had was, I knew I was going to be an architect, but I wasn't ready to go to school [00:12:00] yet, and I work construction, and to hear the way that they saw the building, when they looked at the plans, it was enlightening, and I still think about those conversations every time that I'm, not only what I'm designing, but how I draw it.

Seeing it from other people's perspective, not always. Assuming that you have all the right answers. But to draw the best answers out of the team around you. , is there anything that you could point out from your perspective now that you wish architects were better at when they were dealing with a developer or dealing with a project in general?

If they want to be a great collaboration partner. 

[00:12:28] Jessika: Yeah, absolutely. I've probably got too many pointers, but it's not really two architects per se. There's plenty of architects out there doing all of these things that I'm going to mention and really nailing it. So I don't want to make it sound like, Oh, architects, they really fail at doing blank.

That's not the case, but I've worked with architects who just are really excited to work on a high profile project. For example, they know how to deliver what I'll call the basics, but are sometimes blasé about incorporating what [00:13:00] you as the visionary, the owner, the developer has seen for this site as well.

Sometimes, there's been this like bullheadedness, if you will, and it's not the case for all teams and not definitely not all architects, a bullheadedness of I really, I don't see it being, G shape. As a, an architectural form, I see it being a 25 story tower instead with one single needle point.

That's great, but let's also think about some of the owner requirements. Another point I've certainly worked with some architects who just really give no care to the budget. One of the as. I'm a visionary, so I want to get creative and I want to talk about all the things that would be really cool on a project and, oh, I want them all, right?

I feel like there is a role and responsibility of the architect to say, let me vet out this creative idea you have and think about what it is, draw out of me, what it is they are trying to formulate into a physical built space. I may [00:14:00] say I want the most grand plaza with amazing plants. And then I've seen, I've worked with architects who were like, so really all those things you talked about, what was really important to you is outdoor dining, and I didn't necessarily get there.

But they were able to draw out the right questions and walk through the circulation patterns in a way that really got me to the essence of what the project needed. They in turn use their design skills. to beautify that simple idea that I really had to work through to get to with them.

So it wasn't necessarily an easy way out of being like, I'll just do whatever you say, but it was more collaborative. That word collaboration keeps coming back, but it's important. They really were taking on the role of saying what is important to you? And then they synthesized it with their own creativity and put it out into this.

That's irreplaceable, an irreplaceable skill set that not every architect and not every developer and not every general contractor 

[00:14:56] James: has. There's some cautionary tales in that of what [00:15:00] not to do. Let's talk about project opportunities. Are there some key indicators or red flags that tell you this is not the right opportunity for me?

And is there anything that is a, an indicator that this is going to be a slam dunk? We have to do this project. Every 

[00:15:13] Jessika: market has its own telltale signs of what's going to be magical. Every place has its own identity, like we talked about identities earlier. And I think that places have cultures and identity just like people do.

And I think that comes from the people who live there. And I think that if I've learned anything, it's people want different things and different socioeconomic conditions and different places and different climates. One of the great things about working for a nationwide company was. Seeing the differences in all the projects and then understanding their client market.

For example, you could build luxury apartments in Georgia and they would be incredibly spacious comparatively to something of a similar construction type on the West coast, San Francisco, for [00:16:00] example, or Seattle, knowing that the market itself drives the place you're trying to make. One of the things that tells you it's a good place to develop is when you go and that the people there really are vivacious and loving of the area.

People go and they enjoy being outside or maybe they collect on the stoops of the neighborhood or they hang out at the local park a lot and those large groups starting to own their space. I don't know. I don't know that there are necessarily red flags, so to speak, but there development is about time and place.

We all know what can happen if you come in and you forced development. And make it kitschy and fake and don't create the organic feeling and have people really take ownership of the space that you're trying to create. I think timing is just such an important factor.

Development is not really. Made to be this fast turnaround item, and I think in America, we really struggle with things [00:17:00] that take time and, have to marinate and people have to get used to the change, and it's not really part of American culture, and at least in my experience for that to happen, most people want it.

They want what they want. They want more than what they can use, and they want it now. In fact, they want it yesterday. Yeah. It can be a huge barrier to making a really great project if your timing isn't necessarily right. This podcast 

[00:17:24] James: is brought to you by Creative Interface Architecture and Interiors.

If you want to know more about the ideas expressed in this podcast, please visit creativeinterface. design. Whether you have an idea for a project or you're an experienced developer, you're just curious what architects do. Our website is the place where you can find helpful articles, download your free project planning packet, or you can schedule your free ask the expert phone consultation.

That's creativeinterface. design, making greener construction practically impactful. 

[00:17:53] Jessika: Certainly wasn't, an all star student going through grade school and into high school. And most of that's just an [00:18:00] effort thing. Like I didn't apply myself to my fullest potential. Like many young people do.

Sounds familiar to me. Yeah, I didn't really have a lot of order and stability, definitely had lots of grandparents, aunts, uncles were active in the parental roles of my life. And I think that was great from an adaptability standpoint. Like I definitely experienced hardships as I, I know many people have.

I grew up in a low income household. And I think that. It's important to not forget where you came from when you're evolving into what you're idolizing as your career path. And for me, overcoming that part of my past, what motivated me to go to college. And once I had this idea that I was going to university, I was like, yeah, I think I'm gonna go for architecture.

I'm not really sure how I landed on architecture. I don't even know if I knew what architecture meant when I started the architecture program. Oh, that's interesting.[00:19:00] I'm a first generation college grad. So everything was new. Like I had to figure out my own. Financial aid packages and what documents I needed for my parents to go to college.

And it was probably late doing that every semester for four years, on top of that, like having a job, working your way through school. Also choosing this ultra challenging education path. It was hard to give up architecture because of how much I had invested in effort into it. But I think that once you find the skillset and the vision and your skillsets can be combined like they are for me in development, I think that's the moment in which you see your own path, which really led to the change in careers.

Not just I have an interest in something, but really pushing it to the next level of being like, okay, so I did the architecture thing. And that was great, but it's that wasn't enough. How can I get more? That's when I started to pursue development. 

[00:19:59] James: It's interesting. So much [00:20:00] about your past sounds familiar to me, except I always knew I wanted to protect from a little kid.

That was a clear path for architects. And when I talked to a lot of architects, the developer has this sort of sinister role, they are this number crunching project killers. And like these, this very negative perspective of what a developer is. You've now transitioned over to that development role. Is there any truth to it?

Or is it just a made up bad guy that architects are pointing a finger at and using as an excuse why our projects aren't better? 

[00:20:32] Jessika: No, I certainly think that there are those types of developers. Not everyone has the luxury of choosing their client, but the best developments are being developed by.

Developers not doing what you just said. They are paying attention to cost. You have to have something that's financially feasible to actually create it. Sure. But they're not, Excel junkies just trying to make numbers work, pinching every single penny out of our project. They're willing to put [00:21:00] their money where their mouth is, and they're willing to say.

I want a great public space and I'm willing to pay for it. I will sacrifice this part of my project and the financial implications of that so that we can move forward with this amazing public space. It's how you're getting really great developments like Ponce City Market, Star Metals.

It's how you're getting the office developments by Jim Irwin on the Beltline as well. And even Lee and White. Regarding 

[00:21:29] James: timelines, there are some developers who look at whatever the project that they're creating. What's it going to be worth the day we finish, and others that say a year after, two, three years after, and then others who say a hundred years after.

First of all, do you have a position, are you one or the other, and what encourages people to pick one or the other? That's a 

[00:21:50] Jessika: really great question, actually. I I'd love to say that I'm thinking a hundred years out for my development opportunities, but I don't think that's necessarily about the actual [00:22:00] built construction of the development.

I think it's more about the ambience, the culture, the community that you've brought to a place using the built environment, whether that be apartments or community center. Now, whether or not I've actually got to act on that particular theory is an entirely different conversation. I think there's plenty of developers out there, a dime, a dozen people in all real estate positions that would love to come into a deal, make their money quickly, avoid as much risk as possible it takes more than just financial gains to really placemake, and you have to spend a little bit more money and time and effort to get the payback that is required for placemaking instead of just building buildings. 

[00:22:44] James: The time that it takes to make a project result with something authentic that belongs there, would you say that's a major consideration that's a goal of yours in some of your projects?

You keep coming back to that placemaking, identity, authenticity, belonging. Is that a motivation for you in all projects? [00:23:00] 

[00:23:00] Jessika: Yeah, absolutely it is. A really good example is that right now, I'm working on a completely affordable multifamily project. And by affordable, really, I just mean workforce housing. The target market is in the city of Atlanta, but the reason that I feel so passionately about the identity of a place and the authenticity of a place, is because the target markets, I see myself as part of that unit of people that I'm trying to reach.

Maybe not at this very day in my life am I that appropriate audience, but I certainly consider the fact that I have been in the past or that maybe my parents are or were I think you have to bring authenticity in order to give your love and your passion to a place. And when you're a visionary, usually it's the love and the passion that makes the project happen.

And that, I think, comes back full circle to the original discussion about identity and people. You have to love your people, and then you have to love your [00:24:00] place, you have to, love your culture, love your city, love your neighborhood. A lot of times that takes that passion and that love and that, that want for your people and bundles it up and puts it into the built environment, creating places for those people, physical places 

[00:24:16] James: for those people.

We were taught lessons about how to sympathize with the person, even if they are not like we are, we're not, we don't have a lot of common. The best way to create a design that they're going to be very satisfied with is to understand them as much as we can. And to apply that to a community makes sense.

It just seems like maybe it's a little trickier conversation to wrap your mind around to really understand it. Would you say that there's a, I don't want to say a trick. Do you have a technique or some guidance for somebody who is trying to understand and sympathize with a community or a neighborhood or an entire city?

I don't know 

[00:24:46] Jessika: that there is one single voice that would be heard in that particular scenario. So you have to balance listening to all of those voices in every project you do. In [00:25:00] development in particular, you have to not just balance the voices of the community, the city leadership that you are developing in, but you also have to You have to take in all of the other stakeholder voices as well, your financial stakeholders, marketing stakeholders.

You have to take in local businesses, potential end users, tenants. I guess the major goals of not just that neighborhood, but it's NPU. Or it's city council district, maybe there's a even larger region like the city that you need to consider or a county that they all have goals and you have to synthesize those, listen to those, and then find a balance of how to meet people, what I would call your stakeholders in a business terminology would be just.

You have to figure out a way to work with all the people. The fruits of activity, of profitability, and usability are all at the forefront of what comes when you have everyone working towards a collective goal for a [00:26:00] development. That's maybe an unrealistic scenario to have a hundred percent of people going going in the direction of one common goal, but I think if you can have most people on your project going towards the common goal, I think that's enough actually.

People have done great projects with 

[00:26:18] James: less. How could you describe the vision that you're chasing for the future through development? 

[00:26:24] Jessika: High level, it would be an affordable and profitable city to live in. I say affordable, but really that's probably not the right word. I think resilient is more like the word I was looking for because it's not just about financial affordability.

It's really about affording the effort and the time to conserve energy, conserve with, how much we consume products, for example, or not making public air and vegetation a commodity. But making it [00:27:00] open to the public and free to experience because I think that's a very. Underrated relationship that we have with place, with neighborhoods, with city development.

Such 

[00:27:10] James: a central core heart of the human race. It's not like a recent discovery that we just learned. We've known about this long before there were architects. 

[00:27:19] Jessika: No we all need it. We're moving away from how much we need it. During COVID, I feel like a lot of people really rediscovered their relationship with nature and got out.

Now that we're getting back into the hustle and bustle of things. I think that. People are starting to forget again so quickly. The impacts on your mental health, on how you spend your money, how you spend your time can really be impacted by the environment, whether that be the built environment or natural environment.

[00:27:47] James: I know as an architect, we're constantly offered all of these opportunities to learn about eco positive innovations and methods. How does that voice sound to developers? 

[00:27:58] Jessika: I don't think I can speak for all [00:28:00] developers, but Quite frankly, I think the mass majority would answer it sounds expensive. I mean it sounds Monetarily expensive is what I really meant.

There are benefits as there are benefits in design in general that Sustainable design can provide to a project. That's really intangible. It's not something that you can say Ah, fresh air, I'd put five million dollars on that this is deeper than that. And I think there's plenty of studies that speak to these facts more than I probably can.

We know that tearing buildings down after 20 to 50 years of use isn't a sustainable model for construction. We know that we emit tons of greenhouse gases by typical construction. We have tons of waste over 40 percent of our waste comes from construction debris. We can make changes to that.

And I think we can implement strategies over time to make places that [00:29:00] will last much longer than 50 years. And there's a lot of places in the world doing it better than we're doing it, not just in the U. S., but particularly in 

[00:29:07] James: Georgia. Are you trying to see the returns on your investment as soon as the building is done?

Or can you appreciate the returns on investment that in 50 years that building doesn't have to get torn down and just renovated? Oh yeah. If even that. 

[00:29:19] Jessika: I think every developer's dream would be to develop a project of any use right now. And the second, that it's no longer a valid use. A hundred percent reuse the building you've got for the new use.

I think that's also a financially sustainable model. However, there's a lot of barriers between what your current use is and getting to the end goal of whatever future use may be. Like we may not even know what that use is. It may not exist today. I think most buildings can likely be modified.

It's just how much do we want the highest and best use? And how long, to your point, do we want to wait to realize our returns? A lot of [00:30:00] times, you can make really great projects, they also have an immediate impact in return, financial return. It may not be as big as you initially wanted with your highest and best use.

A long term investment in a place really speaks volumes to what you believe, what your identity is as a developer, what you, what identity you're bringing, what authenticity you're bringing and what motivations and passions you're bringing to a project when you're saying, I'm going to develop this and I'm going to be here for the next 10 to 20 years.

I'm not going to come in and next year, I'm going to be gone. You're bringing your ideals to that project, which I believe is a much more sustainable development model than, a fix and flip, if you will, development style. There's certainly a time and a place and room in the market for that.

I don't know that it's a passion that I have necessarily. You 

[00:30:51] James: talk so much about trying to understand and sympathize with the people involved. It would be hard to let 

[00:30:55] Jessika: go. The reality is like you spend a lot of time and energy to build these [00:31:00] relationships. Get to know people. These are now your friends.

These are people that you call on when you need something, or once you've built that relationship it's not something that you can really give up. And I would consider myself family oriented person, my neighbors, my friends, my colleagues are just extending that family love out and. Every development you do, you get to know the neighbors, you get to know a new person on your team.

You've collected them as a person and part of your network, part of your family, part of your friends. That's certainly hard to give up or to leave behind even it's, it would be like moving away, moving across the country after living next to your best friend.

The relationships are really important.

[00:31:43] James: Jessica's inquisitive mind, her outgoing nature and her enthusiastic personality are some of the reason that placemaking comes naturally to her. She focuses on creating opportunities and engagement at a neighborhood level, and it's clear in the project she works on and the methods she uses to make her developments unique and better suited [00:32:00] to the people who live, work and play there.

She's also an organization such as Urban Land Ins. Women's Leadership Institute and Contractors Closures and Connections. She's involved in the blog of her likewise talented wife, Sarah, called Pride by Design, focused on visibility and experiences of LGBTQIA plus professional architects and designers.

To learn more about Jessica, you can find her information in the episode notes. Thank you for listening to this, our sixth episode in the series on the impact of developments that focus on sustainability. Some people in the development industry are thinking way outside the box and years ahead of their peers.

Next week, we welcome Ryan Bowersox, who's leveraging technology to revolutionize construction, housing, and other highly pollutive industries for efficiency and responsibility. The conversation opened my mind and you won't want to miss it. This podcast is presented by creative interface, architecture, and interiors.

Please visit creative interface. design. Find helpful articles, download your free project planning packet, or schedule your complimentary ask the expert phone consultation. Whether you have an idea for a project, you're an experienced [00:33:00] developer, or you just curious about what architects do, visit creative interface.

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